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- WORLD, Page 70Sisulu: "We Want Immediate Change"
-
-
- Freed after 26 years in jail, a black leader talks to TIME
- about the future
-
- By Walter Sisulu, Scott MacLeod
-
-
- Three days after his release from prison, Walter Sisulu met
- at his Soweto home with Johannesburg bureau chief Scott
- MacLeod. Sitting on a bed beside schoolbooks that belonged to
- his grandchildren, Sisulu began the interview only minutes after
- seven policemen departed. They had asked Sisulu to disperse
- groups of youngsters who were gathering outside. Excerpts:
-
- Q. The police have just paid you a visit. Is there a
- problem?
-
- A. That was General Viktor, the commander for this region.
- He was quite polite. He said it was time we wind things up. He
- doesn't want to be forced to act. I told him to give us a few
- days. By the way, General Viktor is the man who took my
- fingerprints 26 years ago. I said to him, "I remember you. I
- know you very well. You charged us." He said, "Yes, I remember."
-
- Q. What have you discovered upon your return to Soweto?
-
- A. What is new is the political consciousness. Even in the
- ordinary kid in primary school. The quality of the young people
- who are now handling the situation is very high. When we were
- running things, we never reached that stage.
-
- Q. You met with Nelson Mandela just five days before your
- release.
-
- A. When I saw him, I said, "You have never looked so
- bright." He looked tip-top. He told us the authorities had
- decided to release us and expressed his delight.
-
- Q. Has Mandela discussed other matters with the government?
-
- A. He told the government that there would be no solutions
- unless it met with the African National Congress and that it
- was the duty of the government to create the necessary
- conditions.
-
- Q. Do you think F.W. de Klerk wants to negotiate with the
- A.N.C.?
-
- A. I think he has such aims.
-
- Q. Is Mandela in effect leading the anti-apartheid movement
- from prison?
-
- A. The A.N.C. has an elected leadership. Whatever Mandela
- does, he first has to consult those leaders. Although the
- A.N.C. recognizes Mandela's standing, he cannot direct the
- group. What he can do, and what he has done, is communicate with
- the movement, reporting what he has done or what is being said
- to him (by the government).
-
- Q. When will Mandela be free?
-
- A. I don't know. But it is his opinion that he will not be
- released this year.
-
- Q. De Klerk speaks about a step-by-step process. Thus far
- he has permitted protests and released some political prisoners.
- Is this a reasonable approach?
-
- A. As long as he is beginning to recognize the voice of the
- people, we do appreciate that. But we don't want a step-by-step
- process. We want immediate radical change.
-
- Q. The government says anybody favoring peaceful change can
- participate in talks. Does the A.N.C. meet this condition?
-
- A. That type of thing we dismiss with contempt. The armed
- struggle continues. Until the government negotiates a new
- situation, including the end of violence, there is no way of
- stopping it.
-
- Q. Do you believe you will see black majority rule in your
- lifetime?
-
- A. I think so, because of the interaction of various forces
- internationally and at home, including the conflict among
- Afrikaners themselves.
-
- Q. What can you do to calm the fears of whites who are
- concerned about black domination?
-
- A. This is old propaganda. The most important thing is to
- educate the Afrikaners and the whites in general. When
- Afrikaners meet the A.N.C., they all come back impressed.
-
- Q. Can education work?
-
- A. In my cell I was alone but guarded all the time by a
- (white) warder. He would make comments and become very hostile
- when he saw certain things about the A.N.C. on TV. I then took
- a chance to talk to him, to educate him. In the end, he
- understood.
-
-